I'm so sorry my dear readers for being late on giving you insights for the Election Day, but you know me; I wouldn't neglect such important event unless there is a good reason. I was waiting for the New York Times to publish my article.So here is the link for my article in the New York Times newspaper
And here is the article:
I WOKE up with hope, hope for Iraq to be taken along the correct path by its sons. I woke to the noises voters were making in the street. As I dressed I was thinking about how different this election would be. Most of the people I know were not voting based on sects, but on sense. We are sick to death of corruption and sectarianism, and desperate for a change.
Many people I spoke to had no faith in the credibility of the elections, thinking that the winners were already decided. But they wanted to do their part, hoping they might be wrong. Others voted to satisfy their consciences — especially after some religious leaders announced that it would be a sin not to participate.
I opened the door and I felt a very soft breeze. The weather was great, neither hot nor cold, perfect for a walk in the car-free streets, a walk along the sacred road to democracy. Yet with every step my hopes were crushed by a sad reality: there were far fewer people heading to the polls than there had been in previous elections. Still, there were some scenes that filled my heart with joy: for example, an elderly woman, so stooped she could barely walk, pushing her husband to a polling station in his wheelchair.
With the sparse crowds, I had only a short wait before the employee found my name in the list and gave me my voting paper. I took it to the booth and chose what I believed was best for Baghdad, then I painted my finger purple — it might look ugly, but I like it and I’m proud of it. At the same time, a child reached the table and insisted on painting his finger, too; everybody smiled because he was so happy about it.
On my way home I developed an obsession of looking at the fingertips of every man and woman I passed. Too many had no ink. I hope the electoral committee does its part better than we did. I hope the election will not be fraudulent and the winners will not let us down. And I hope the people who didn’t vote this time will do so next time, and a real democracy will be achieved in the land where the first laws of the human race were set.
And for my dear readers, here is an addition:
I went back from the polling center with my wife to our friends' house, and there we found some other friends of us and we took this photo that speaks almost everything….a group of real Iraqis; Sunnis, Shiites and a Kurd who all are united in friendship and in purple fingers, what a nice day it was, we had lots of fun and some useful political conversations.
The primary results till now shows the winning of Maliki at the first place then Dr.Ayad Alwai in the second place…If this will be the final results, then I'll be satisfied, the party I think is the best among the available candidates will take the second place; that's good for me.And Maliki in my opinion is bad but he is much better when he left the coalition (Ali`tilaf) and left AlHakeem, and better than Sadriasts and Dr.Jaffari.
Well, I hope the candidates that people have elected and placed their faith in will not let us down.





45 comments:
Thank you so much for this Dr. Mohammed! I am so excited for you and your country! Maybe now, at last, we can breathe easily.
I think, though, no matter which democracy you live in, it is always a question of finding the least worst person to vote for. Nobody is without flaws, and we are all, alas, human.
Good luck to you! It is good to hear you so hopeful!
Dr. Mohammed, congratulations my friend for being asked to write for the New York Times, a very prestigious paper indeed. You should be very proud. It was an extremely well written piece. I will be passing this along to my readers and friends. It is to bad that the turnout was kind of low, but at least things went rather smoothly. It is beginning to sound like the results will be very incouraging too. That would be the best part of all. I thought they were going to buy a "secret" color of ink this time? I guess they forgot. This will be looked on by history as a very good day for Iraq. I congratulate all Iraqs for that. Stay safe, stay happy and may God bless you and your family.
Good for you man!!!
Allah knows you deserve some joy in your life. I'm glad you could feel that emotion.
Ultimately, I have great faith in Iraqis to create what will be an amazing example of what an Arab state can be, a shining example for the rest of the Middle East, and the rest of the world.
...Because if Iraqis can do it, EVERYBODY CAN.
GO IRAQ!
Congratulations on the excellent piece Dr Mohammed. It's sad that more people didn't vote, but perhaps that's a sign of how elections thankfully seem less novel in Iraq now?
I'm glad the vote passed relatively peacefully for you and other Iraqis.
Congragulations, Dr. Mohhammed. I am so happy for you and all Iraqis.
Personally, I hope that Al-Maliki's party wins...I believe that the Prime Minister has suceeded in liberating his country from the grip of terrorism and the near-civil war that it attempted to start.
Whatever the results, I will greatly respect the will of the Iraqi people. They truly know what is write for their country :)
God bless you, and god bless Iraq, my friend.
And THANKS TO PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH for standing behind General Petraeus and the surge that made all of this possible!!!
*
I'm glad your election went so well. In the USA, we don't always have such great turnout, so 51% isn't bad really.
As for Bush, Patraeus and the surge, I'm glad our troops could help, but the real credit goes to the Iraqis who decided to clean up their own neighborhoods and country. They are the ones who deserve the credit. They better not be out of jobs like has been reported for their prior activities unless they were just plain cold blooded killers and not acting as "freedom fighters" or in need of money, etc...
Dr. Mohammed, I just got done posting a piece of your article along with all the necessary links for the rest of yours and the others in the New York Times. I hope I did it justice for you. This is exactly what more people need to hear. Again, this was an excellent posting and you deserve to be recognised for the valuable work you do. Please take a moment when you get the chance to check it out at http://theaverageamericanparty.blogspot.com/2009/02/iraqis-views-on-iraqi-elections.html
God bless you and your family and all Iraqis.
Joe
Thanks for the update Akhoiya Dr. Mohammed. Congratulations on the New York Times!
Is Maliki really the second best politician in Iraq? What do you think about Alusi (I like him)? I didn't like Allawi back in 2003. He felt too similar to the Sunni Arab dictators and the type of scum the US state department and CIA like. {Note that unlike American GIs, who are very very good, State Department and CIA types are morons and sometimes not even on America's side.}
Personally, I like Maliki. He has helped improve the Iraqi Army and Iraqi Police and is allowing most US troops to leave Iraqi quickly. Americans badly want to remove troops from Iraq so that we can send them to Afghanistan to fight Takfiri animals.
Dr. Mohammed, please keep us abreast of all election results and what they mean for Iraq.
amagi,
thank you very much.
Average American,
Thank you friend...I wish the results will be encouraging too; that's really important for the presidential elections at the end of this year.
Dave Narby,
I wish that too, thank you very much.
Martin,
Thank you very much, I think the next will elections will have more voters, I wish.
CH,
Thank you very much, but don't forget that Maliki didn't accept the Awakening councils who had a big major role in the achievements...anyway, Maliki is better when he left Badir brigade and Hakim...people developed more faith in him after that...rumors that he will finish Badir like he did with JAM...I pray for god that he will do it soon...most educated and real Iraqis chose Dr.Ayad Alawi regardless of their sect.
Jeffery,
you always want to direct it to Bush! does he pay you??
shouldn't the thank goes to the real people on the ground who made this happen...he just approved what Petraeus have planned and that plan would never work without Abu-Risha and the other Iraqis who wanted peace!!! anyway, thank Bush if you want...but I will not.
LJM,
I agree.
Average American,
Thank you very much, it's a very nice post..I liked it...and a nice blog too...feels like home :)
Anad,
Alusi is good but I (and many others) think he is just good for talking not acting and there are so bad rumors about him...he is not that active and he isn't tried by the people.
Alawi is secular, tough, hits with an iron fist and gives money in the other fist...he believes in the freedom of women...he would hit anyone who doesn't obey the laws no matter what is the sect.....I like many others believe that this is the type of leaders Iraq needs at this time, maybe later we will search for a softer one...but Iraq is not like any other country it is so troubled and messed and needs those qualifications in addition to some others so that a man can lead it, that's what I think.
Dr Mohammed : Your second photo on this thread is the picture of the year. We are trying to publicise it at this end. See -
http://www.labourfriendsofiraq.org.uk/archives/001255.html
thank Bush if you want...but I will not.
Exactly, Mohammed. I think most people around the world would share that sentiment.
Congrats on the vote, and thanks for another interesting post.
As Harry said, the second photo is fantastic!
Okay, what are the 'bad rumors' about al-Alusi?
And please check your articles before you hit PUBLISH, al-Maliki LEADS the Dawa Party, al-Hakim has nothing to do with Dawa.
Harry,
Thank you for that.
JG,
Yes, he can thank him but many won't.
Abbas Hawazin,
let's ignore the rumors and lett's talk about facts; he went to Israel for personal reasons! he might be good but not my choice.
About the mistake...thank you pal for noting it....looool, that was a huge mistake, I wanted to write he left the coalition (Ali`tilaf) but check the above comment you would know what I had in mind.
It's strange that no body noticed it, I published the post in a hurry...sorry guys for the mistake.
What is wrong with visiting Israel for a conference?
BTW, Israel can help the Iraqi Army and Iraqi Air Force a lot. {Israel secretly already is.} Why not take Israeli help on fighting terrorists and improving the Iraqi Army, Iraqi Police, and intelligence? Israel can also help on economic issues.
Being friends with Israel gives Iraq more leverage on Israel to help the Palestinians too.
Remember that 23% of all Israeli citizens are Palestinian Arab Israelis. Iraq can always claim it is only helping the Israeli Palestinians, can't it? Another reason to be friends with Israel is that there are probably over a million Israelis who use to be Iraqi Jews or the descendants of Iraqi Jews. These Iraqi Jews continue to love Iraq and want good relations between Iraq and Israel.
I think the biggest reason to work with the Israelis is to help the Palestinians. I think it is very important to help the Palestinians.
Mohammed,
Yes, George Bush pays he $225,000 per year to run support his good name on the Iraqi blogs -- yep, that's how rich and powerful we are.
Hey, I've always said that a large portion of the success in Iraq must go to the Iraqi security forces who helped implement General Petraeus's plan and to the Iraqi people who finally began to trust the Iraqis and Americans working together. But, let's get real, Bush stuck his neck out politically to stand behind the then-unpopular surge.
Without Bush's decision and resolve, today there's a good chance Iraq would be in the middle of a very bloody civil war. You don't have to thank Bush, of course. You just have to acknowledge President Bush's wisdom in sticking with General Petraeus' plan when Obama and Biden and the others were shouting for an immediate withdrawal of US forces as Iraq began to slide into civil war.
*
I think it is very important to help the Palestinians.
I doubt that very much.
I think the biggest reason to work with the Israelis is to help the Palestinians
Israel has just murdered some 1300 Palestinian Arabs in Gaza. I think suggesting that Iraqis should "work with the Israelis" is grossly insulting to the memory of those dead and their bereaved families. Show some respect you foul creature.
Jeffrey - I disagree with your statement that Dr Mohammed / any Iraqis "have to acknowledge President Bush's wisdom". They don't have to do anything, except read the situation on the ground and react in whatever manner they see fit.
I personally believe that Bush deserves praise for sticking with the surge, and I think in the future Iraqis will look back and be grateful for America's invasion. But at the moment too many Iraqis are suffering the consequences of living in a warzone, and it is unreasonable to expect them to thank anyone - especially the man who unleashed so much bloodshed on their land.
The historians will decide whether he was correct. No-one knows yet.
JG,
Grossly insulting or not, working with Israel is a better option than fighting her.
Jeffrey,
Bush also should get credit for listening to Petraeus. He had no problem changing tactics when he realized that we had made errors in judgement in the beginning. That runs counter to so many of his detractors who considered him inflexible.
Anand said, Israel can help the Iraqi Army and Iraqi Air Force a lot. {Israel secretly already is.} Why not take Israeli help on fighting terrorists and improving the Iraqi Army, Iraqi Police, and intelligence? Israel can also help on economic issues.
Why should Iraqis do that, and let themselves in for another dose of "Shock and Awe"? Why would Iraq seek the advice of the Israeli government that is responsible for war crimes against the Palestinians? No one needs the help of a war criminal?
When one reads Anand - and others like him - saying that Iraq should let Israel help them, one should never forget that Israel's long-term goal is to extend the State of Israel west to the Nile and east to the Euphrates.
So Anand is saying that Israel should be Iraq's "Trojan horse".
I am sure that Israel is not already "secretly" helping Iraq.
LOL, the Repugs here still claiming credit for Bush and Petraeus. Iraq is still the most dangerous country in the world, and it is all the fault of the USA.
Iraqis will rebuild their country without any "help" from Israel.
I remembered today the huge furore over the new Iraqi flag - designed by some individual in London - which had the same colours as the Israeli flag instead of the red, green and white of all the Arab country flags. LOL, Israel thought she'd get her flag "planted" first in Iraq, and follow up with "boots on the ground" later, supplied and financed by America.
Thank God the US has utterly failed to make Iraq a compliant state, despite having squandered zillions of your tax dollars and thousands of American lives in the process.
Iraq for the Iraqis.
I really think that Egypt should do more to protect Gaza - if Egypt won't act to protect fellow Muslims, then act to protect Egypt - I want to shake the Egyptian head of state and say: wake up, do something because you are next on Israel's list of countries to bomb back 50 years, just as soon as Israel has cleared out Gaza which lies in the way.
Lynette,
All the Arab League countries have promised to recognise and work with Israel just as soon as they end their brutal occupation of Palestinian lands. That's a pre-condition, and it's a very reasonable one.
Have you been hijacked by "Find Singles In Your Area" ?
{anand} "Another reason to be friends with Israel is"
He's joking, right? The only reason for Iraq to be 'friends' with Israel is because American foreign policy requires it to do so. There is no reward for Iraq by cosying up to the Israelis, sworn enemies of Arabs and Muslims.
Let's get serious. It's like enumerating all the reasons America should ally itself with Osama bin Laden.
JG,
There are Israelis who can be talked to and dealt with. But an effort has to be made to do so. I am pasting here an excerpt from a discussion between Avram (who lives in Israel) and Annie (no doubt a friend of yours) regarding the situation between the Israelis and the Palestinians.
Avram: Annie - If a 2 state solution came the way of the '67 line, I'd be happy with it if it bought proper peace. I don't hate my neighbors (well, I hate Hamas and the radical elements within Fatah). I want their children, as well as ours, to not know war. I, in the last year or so, have become a strong believer in SECURITY over SETTLEMENTS. I don't believe we can have both anymore. I don't want my kid to have to learn war like I have, and be an active combat reservist. I'd rather we have an 'army' for show, like the Swiss, and live side by side, in trust and peace with our neighbors. Yes, I am a right wing ZIONIST and that's what I believe.
2/05/2009 12:48 AM
Rachel,
I have always said that this whole situation was the Iraqis to win or lose. And it is. But I still give President Bush credit for changing course when it was called for.
Bruno,
I also wondered if he was being serious, or just looking for a reaction. Who knows what goes on inside that head!
Lynnette,
Annie (no doubt a friend of yours)
Millions of people all over the world support the Palestinian struggle. If this 'Annie' supports the Palestinians it doesn't mean she is a friend of mine. Don't be so childish, it really doesn't suit you.
In any case you didn't paste an exchange, just one comment from 'Avram' and nothing from 'Annie'
As I've mentioned before, it's all nice and fine for Israelis to claim they "believe in SECURITY over SETTLEMENTS", but if they vote for Netanyahu or Avigdor Lieberman my only response is, "I don't believe you."
The elections tomorrow will tell us plenty about whether Israelis are ready for peace. Let's wait and see how they vote.
Wow - some really radical comments there. To Bruno: comparing Israeli/Iraqi cooperation to an alliance between the US and Al Qaeda is an absurd thing to do. Whatever criticism you (perhaps rightly) levy against Israel, it is still a free country and it's fundamental core beliefs are not evil, unlike Al Qaeda's.
At the end of the day, there's a plot of land in the Middle East that now - for better or for worse - the Jewish people call home. That plot of land is very close to Iraq, so sooner or later they will have to start cooperating. Saying they should be sworn enemies forever is stupid and reckless.
@ Mohammed.
Dear Doc, this is your blog, so you are free to do whatever you like, but I imagine that by now you know that publishing the nauseating lies by that Snakeworm 'Anand' (that evil Nazi satanist who cheeared the Israeli massacre of civilians in Gaza) was NOT a good idea.
As a consequence of your liberality, now we have this other VERMIN, "Martin River Scrap" (proper name for such scum, BTW), who has the incredible cheek of writing: "Whatever criticism you (perhaps rightly) levy against Israel, it is still a free country" !!!
Apart from being a TERRORIST, GENOCIDAL, ROGUE country always engaged in wars of AGGRESSION, now Israel has FORBIDDEN the presence of the three Israeli Arab parties at its elections, so, it is NOT a "democracy", and it is NOT "free".
This other piece of revolting garbage 'Martin' is an utter LIAR, like his pal 'Anand'.
Kick both of these abominations out, please !
[martin] "To Bruno: comparing Israeli/Iraqi cooperation to an alliance between the US and Al Qaeda is an absurd thing to do."
Really? Why is that? The ideological differences are as deep, if not deeper, since there is an ethnic element involved as well. Let it be noted that America has worked together with Al Qaeda when it has suited it.
[martin] "Whatever criticism you (perhaps rightly) levy against Israel, it is still a free country and it's fundamental core beliefs are not evil, unlike Al Qaeda's."
Again: really? One of Al Qaeda's goals is to recreate a Muslim caliphate. Isn't it true that Israel defines itself through its Jewish identity? Isn't it true that Israel banned Arab parties from contesting the last elections? I actually see many parallels betwen the use of terror by Al Qaeda to achieve its goals and the use of terror by Israel. I've talked to some of these right wing Israelis. They would have used the atom bomb long ago, if it wasn't for the risk of radioactive fallout from Gaza.
[martin] "At the end of the day, there's a plot of land in the Middle East that now - for better or for worse - the Jewish people call home. That plot of land is very close to Iraq, so sooner or later they will have to start cooperating."
Maybe. But that would involve some unprecedented sacrifices by Israel, which I don't see happening. And until such time as that occurs, I simply don't see Iraq or any other Arab country being on any side than that of their Palestinian kin. Anand is basically a radical Neocon stooge, peddling Neocon ideology and fantasising about restarting the failed American plan to reshape the Middle East to American and Israeli advantage. Maybe you don't recognise this, but I do.
[martin] "Saying they should be sworn enemies forever is stupid and reckless."
I didn't say that, did I?
JG - Anand is serious. He just sounds like he's trolling because his ideas are so far out. How the Neocons ever got to be in positions of such influence within America beats me.
I just want to say one thing...I don't care if Israel is free or not, I don't care if it's democratic or not, I have a torn up country to worry and think about but I must say that there is no real reason behind the cooperation with Israel other than USA effect on the government (or the government wants so)...I have a strong doubt that Israel is dealing with Iraq now but in secret...what's the necessity to deal with Israel? USA have the same arsenal if not better than that of Israel and they are already in here and have (let's say custody) on Iraq....OK, leave USA what about the European countries like France or UK or Germany!!
Italian, as I always say, let people talk even if you don't like their words or opinions because they will only talk about themselves and their opinions, they would not effect anyone...hear what people have to say so that you'll be able to know how people think and then you will know why the world is in such condition...you'll acquire knowledge and knowledge is power, listen my friend even if you don't like what you hear, listen so that you know how people think.....
@ An Italian
You're a complete raving lunatic! All I said was that Israel is a democracy, and you call me "scum" and a "piece of revolting garbage"? How mature. I suppose you think everyone in the mainstream media is scum too? As CNN, ABC, BBC etc routinely express the same sentiments I did.
Hopefully some people will defend me here. As a general rule: anyone who bandies around insults only does so because they are not intelligent enough to hold a serious debate. I cannot understand what you are doing on an internet forum if all you know how to do is chuck around personal insults like a four-year-old child.
Grow up, An Italian.
Also can I add that I have been called an "anti-semite" on pro-Israeli forums, and a "Nazi" on pro-Arab forums. Both accusations are equally absurd, and are only ever levied by children such as yourself who are blinded by their own prejudices. I'm a centrist - you're a radical. Good luck with that.
JG,
If this 'Annie' supports the Palestinians it doesn't mean she is a friend of mine. Don't be so childish, it really doesn't suit you.
*sigh* I was just joking, JG. Annie and you have quite a bit in common, that's all.
In any case you didn't paste an exchange, just one comment from 'Avram' and nothing from 'Annie'
I didn't say I was going to post the entire exchange, just an excerpt from the discussion. I wanted to post one Israeli's viewpoint, considering that those who don't live there are so free with their opinions on this subject. If you want to read the entire exchange (it's rather long as Annie can be rather wordy), you can click here.
The elections tomorrow will tell us plenty about whether Israelis are ready for peace.
As in any election there are many factors that go into people's choices. *shrug*
Martin,
I am rather sorry that you had to run into Italian. He is well known on many of these blogs. You have him pegged quite well, except for the intelligence part. He is quite intelligent and has actually been known to engage in somewhat more serious debate. But his goal has always appeared to be to drive away any rational discussion by moderates.
Mohammed does have a point that by reading what others say you can judge how they think. And, in my opinion, you can also judge their character.
Italian,
Put a cork in it.
@Martin (riverScrap.com), February 10, 2009 7:28 AM
Israel, it is still a free country
Free for whom? Is it possible that you are unaware that Israel has blockaded Gaza for the last 18 months?
At the end of the day, there's a plot of land in the Middle East that now - for better or for worse - the Jewish people call home.
Nothing that can't be undone, like any failed experiment. The elected representatives of the Jews in Israel long ago forfeited the right to this "home".
*sigh* I was just joking, JG
lol, OK fair enough, Lynnette. Sorry for my touchiness!
I wanted to post one Israeli's viewpoint, considering that those who don't live there are so free with their opinions on this subject
It might surprise you that I've been to Israel, have a number of friends there, and have heard various Israeli viewpoints many, many times. I always get on well with Israelis and I don't wish to demonise them but I am appalled by the criminal actions of their government and, as the Israeli public elects the government, YES this does raise questions. For one, do Israelis want security and normality or do they want a just peace accord with the Palestinians?
As in any election there are many factors that go into people's choices. *shrug*
I couldn't agree more, Lynnette, but this is less true of a country involved in a major conflict. But tell me this: if Israelis elect a bloc that has specifically stated prior to the election (in print and in word) that it will not withdraw from illegally occupied land, does this not tell us something about the Israeli people's willingness to make peace with their neighbors?
Right now exit polls suggest the right-wing bloc (Likud and other crazies) won the elections 49-46. Too early to be certain though.
[mohammed] "I have a torn up country to worry and think about"
Quite right!
[mohammed] "there is no real reason behind the cooperation with Israel other than USA effect on the government"
And yet again I agree. Iraq has nothing to gain by working with Israel at the moment, no matter how much the Americans would like it to. I've been pleasantly surprised by the amount of backbone Maliki has shown in dealing with the Americans lately. It appears that the Neoconservatives have lost all the way, which is GOOD.
[lynnette] "I was just joking, JG. Annie and you have quite a bit in common"
Annie is Lynnette's evil nemesis, JG. ;)
Oh, I didn't realise it was that Annie. I like her! :)
JG,
For one, do Israelis want security and normality or do they want a just peace accord with the Palestinians?
What do your Israeli friends say? It sounds to me, from what Avram has said, that he would choose all three.
if Israelis elect a bloc that has specifically stated prior to the election (in print and in word) that it will not withdraw from illegally occupied land, does this not tell us something about the Israeli people's willingness to make peace with their neighbors?
Depends. Here is an interesting analysis of the outcome of the Israeli elections.
Bruno,
Annie is Lynnette's evil nemesis, JG. ;)
Careful. You will be giving her delusions of grandeur. lol!
@Indigo:
I really don't think Israel has proven to be a failed experiment, anymore than Iraq has. Both countries had their borders drawn up less than 100 years ago, and both are currently struggling with internal strife. If you give up on Israel, why not Iraq?
@Bruno:
Yes I am saying that 'Israel-Palestine' cannot seriously be compared to 'America-Al Qaeda'. I'm not making any effort to defend Israel, but look at her motivations: the Jewish State does not seek to turn the whole world into a theocracy; it does not murder prisoners; it does not intentionally target civilians.
By contrast, it DOES allow Arabs to live freely within Israeli society; it does uphold democratic values for its own citizens; and it does provide medical care for enemy combatants and civilians caught up its its war. Now again, I'm not defending Israel at all - in fact I repeatedly condemned its Gaza strikes on my blog, labelling them inhumane, pointless and abhorrently self-serving.
But to suggest that Israel is as evil as Al Qaeda? Come on. You can sit down at a table and negotiate with Israel. Try doing that with bin Laden and see where it gets you...
@Lynnette
Thanks for the heads-up about An Italian :)
@ Martin-Swamp-Scrap
you call me "scum" and a "piece of revolting garbage"?
He also called you "vermin" and "an abomination"
LOL!!
Both countries had their borders drawn up less than 100 years ago
Israel has never declared its borders.
You are very naive about Israel if you truly believe the following:
1. it does not intentionally target civilians
2. it does provide medical care for enemy combatants and civilians caught up its its war
3. You can sit down at a table and negotiate with Israel
1. Israel kidnaps Palestinians, keeps them without trial, refuses their families access to them (which is against international law - obviously), and tortures them. Also, Israel executed Egyptian prisoners in both the 1956 and 1967 wars so your assertion is 100% false.
Israel does intentionally target civilians. Watch the Iron Wall documentary. IDF soldiers openly admit shooting at civilians in Hebron.
2. Tell that to the kids who starved for days beside the corpses of their mothers (after the IDF shelled their home) while Israel refused the Red Cross access to the area.
http://www.welt.de/english-news/article2992424/ICRC-finds-starving-children-beside-dead-mother.html
3. The Palestinians have tried this for 60 years and have found it doesn't yield many results.
Now again, I'm not defending Israel at all
YES, you are.
3. The Palestinians have tried this for 60 years and have found it doesn't yield many results.
Maybe they should ask the Jordanians and the Egyptians how it's done?
3. The Palestinians have tried this for 60 years and have found it doesn't yield many results.
Maybe they should ask the Jordanians and the Egyptians how it's done?
JG As I've mentioned before, it's all nice and fine for Israelis to claim they "believe in SECURITY over SETTLEMENTS", but if they vote for Netanyahu or Avigdor Lieberman my only response is, "I don't believe you."
exactly the point i was trying to make on treasures thread but this arvam fellow will not address it w/me, he started blathering abut me being extreme and other assorted ad hominems. you see, the rightwing zionist parties are for the continues expansion of settlerments on the proposed palestinian state, the settlements that are built on palestinian owned land (70%!). so exactly what party does this self identified right wing zionist support if he supports "SECURITY over SETTLEMENTS". it makes no sense, it is a total contradiction.
so sooner or later they will have to start cooperating.
there is no requirement to cooperate w/the racist genocidal state of israel who has little history of cooperating (outside of cooperating w/other neocons) so perhaps they should show some cooperation themselves before there is any expectation other countries will cooperate w/them.
Maybe they should ask the Jordanians and the Egyptians how it's done?
that is a bogus comparison and you know it ms lyn. jordanians and egyptians have there own country they call home. israel isn't occupying egypt and jordan at present. they are not building settlements on land owned by jordan and egypt. palestinians are refugees on their own land. so don't go making these false comparisons.
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